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March 09, 2009

Which is more violent?

Philip Jenkins of Penn State covered the basics of violent scripture in the Sunday Boston Globe:

Dark passages
Does the harsh language in the Koran explain Islamic violence? Don't answer till you've taken a look inside the Bible
By Philip Jenkins | March 8, 2009
WE HAVE A good idea what was passing through the minds of the Sept. 11 hijackers as they made their way to the airports.

Their Al Qaeda handlers had instructed them to meditate on al-Tawba and Anfal, two lengthy suras from the Koran, the holy scripture of Islam. The passages make for harrowing reading. God promises to "cast terror into the hearts of those who are bent on denying the truth; strike, then, their necks!" (Koran 8.12). God instructs his Muslim followers to kill unbelievers, to capture them, to ambush them (Koran 9.5). Everything contributes to advancing the holy goal: "Strike terror into God's enemies, and your enemies" (Koran 8.60). Perhaps in their final moments, the hijackers took refuge in these words, in which God lauds acts of terror and massacre.
But have you met the Christian Bible?
The richest harvest of gore comes from the books that tell the story of the Children of Israel after their escape from Egypt, as they take over their new land in Canaan. ... the full orgy of militarism, enslavement, and race war [is] in the Books of Joshua and Judges. Moses himself reputedly authorized this campaign when he told his followers that, once they reached Canaan, they must annihilate all the peoples they find in the cities specially reserved for them (Deut. 20: 16-18).

Joshua, Moses's successor, proves an apt pupil. When he conquers the city of Ai, God commands that he take away the livestock and the loot, while altogether exterminating the inhabitants, and he duly does this (Joshua 8). When he defeats and captures five kings, he murders his prisoners of war, either by hanging or crucifixion. (Joshua 10). Nor is there any suggestion that the Canaanites and their kin were targeted for destruction because they were uniquely evil or treacherous: They happened to be on the wrong land at the wrong time. And Joshua himself was by no means alone. In Judges again, other stories tell of the complete extermination of tribes with the deliberate goal of ending their genetic lines.

In modern times, we would call this genocide...
After reading this, I poked around some of the plethora of anti-Islam sites. You can find these on your own. Sure, they have an answer for why Islam really is more violent today. If a commentator does understand the violent passages of the Old Testament, the argument usually goes that Christianity has evolved from these specific events of the past, while the Koran places violence at the core of Islam for all time.

We can argue about what the words mean for today, but personally, I can't see the distinction. Jenkins wants us keep perspective.
Commands to kill, to commit ethnic cleansing, to institutionalize segregation, to hate and fear other races and religions . . . all are in the Bible, and occur with a far greater frequency than in the Koran. At every stage, we can argue what the passages in question mean, and certainly whether they should have any relevance for later ages. But the fact remains that the words are there, and their inclusion in the scripture means that they are, literally, canonized, no less than in the Muslim scripture.

Comments

Here's the deal, pal.

The Muslims right NOW say, KILL the JEWS and the Christians, " people of the Book"[BIBLE]. It is in the Koran.

They quote the Koran to justify killing or maiming women too. Honor killing of Muslim women by Muslims in Modern Europe, Canada and the USA is appaling!

Non-muslim women have been gang raped and beaten bloody in Sweden and Austrialia by Muslim gangs who when captured and placed on trial quote the Koran's verses that say ALL non-islamic women are whores whom they are allowed to punish by raping and beating.

Barbaric!! Barbaric men who are not worthy to live amongst civilzed, secular people.

There is not a mainline Jewsih Temple or Church in the world committing TERRORISM in the name of Jesus Christ or Moses.

I sat at a meeting in 2002 where some Muslim man from Bosnia living in the USA, stated in a very loud voice that the Jews committed 9/11.
That man is as CRAZY as a bedbug!!

I just do not think that Methodist guy down the street from me is out plotting to blow up air planes in the name of John Wesley, the man who started his church a couple of years ago.

I know that islamics around the world cheered over 9/11 and that fact makes me suspect just about ALL of them and their Koran which tells them to kill people who disagree with them.

I also do not worry about sex discrimination in the form of a Sharia type laws by Lutherans or Jews.

I know if I steal a loaf of bread that I might go to jail but no Baptist is going to CUT OFF MY HAND like the Koran says to do.

The Koran is primitive and not even good reading. It needs to come into the 21st century and it followers need to begin to understand that secular law is best because it makes NO LAWS to establish a religion of the STATE in order to exclude those not of a favored religion!!

Saudi Arabia is a prime example of a one religion government!

And just because a Muslim daddy needs money, a cow. a goat or camel it does not give him the right to sell a little girl child and let her be subject to sexual exploitation and torture. I don't care IF the Koran tells him it is OK to do so!!

IT IS WRONG!!

And there it is. The Koran needs a re-write or some folks need to get a more moderate religion that will fit into a modern world. OH wait... if some Muslim wises up and moves onto another, a HIGHER religious and or secular reasoning in his life, the Koran says the other Muslims can KILL HIM for leaving Islam behind!

Yikes. What a bunch of losers.

Posted by N.G. Jaracz on March 13, 2009 at 19:16

The deal? Yep, the world is full of social problems and violence. Every example here (none of which I'll bother to attempt to verify) does in fact have analogues that cut right across humanity in all its belief systems.

Our own community right here in Maine is loaded with good Christian families where women and girls are terrorized with domestic violence and rape. How many local Christian rapists take their inspiration from the story of Lot's daughters? I doubt many. But women certainly are seen as inferior to men throughout the Bible.

Posted by The Owl on March 13, 2009 at 19:53

the PRINCIPIA DISCORDIA (http://www.sacred-texts.com...) is the book for me. and it solves the problem of Koran vs. Bible. the fifth commandment: "A Discordian is Prohibited of Believing What he reads." but a discordian doesn't need a book to tell him/her that.

Posted by Montag on March 17, 2009 at 10:29

2 Corinthians 11:- 4,13,14 says satan comes as an angel of light (messenger of god) with another gospel, another jesus and another spirit of god.. These are koran and Issa and Allah..
Galatians 1-8 says an angel from heaven teaches a perverted gospel.
Face it God is allowing man to be tested as to whether he believes the Gospel of life, or satan's koran Gospel of good and evil....

Posted by ruth on May 06, 2009 at 12:35

Thanks for the comment, Ruth. This certainly has become an interesting thread. My observation on your comment is that Christian-oriented websites I visit often offer much about "deception" with respect to Islam. Meanwhile, Islamic websites are quite the opposite. Here's a quote I just looked up:

http://www.qatarliving.com/...
"Muslims believe, that Jesus was one of the mightiest messengers of God that he was the Christ, that he was born miraculously without any male intervention (which many modern-day Christians do not believe today), that he gave life to the dead by God's permission and that he healed those born blind and the lepers by God's permission."

Nothing but respect for Jesus. I guess if you're inclined to mistrust, you'll be suspicious and won't be dissuaded from your position. Peace will remain elusive.

Posted by The Owl on May 06, 2009 at 16:57
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